Bradley Bodeker and Amy compare notes about their hometown and why they write the stories they write.
Bradley Bodeker is an author of poetry and horror fiction. He is also an illustrator, musician, actor, and ordained minister of the Church of the Latter Day Dude. Bradley is currently working on two novels and a horror anthology.
https://facebook.com/KingBeeRadley
https://amazon.com/author/bradleybodeker
Amy Hallberg 0:01
Recently, I aired an episode with my dear friend Brad Bodeker, who's a fellow writer, and I grew up with Brad in the same hometown. And so it was just a great opportunity to talk about what it was like for me putting my work out there. But the thing is that Brad is writing two books of his own and I've seen him go through a lot of the things that I've gone through, so I wanted to have him back for today's season finale to talk about that.
You're listening to Courageous Wordsmith. I'm Amy Hallberg, story coach, book writing mentor, and author. And these are conversations with real life creatives. Because if you want to be a real life creative, it helps to know what that looks like for you. Welcome to Courageous Wordsmith.
Brad is back with me because we are going to talk about the book that Brad is writing right now. And we're going to continue the conversation about racism as he experienced it as a brown skinned man growing up in our very white community. So happy to have you here, Brad.
Bradley Bodeker 1:19
Yes, thank you. It's very happy to be back.
Amy Hallberg 1:23
So when we last wrapped it up, because you and I could talk a blue streak, we could just talk and talk and talk, and you know this, we get together and we talk for a long time. So I was like, let's just have this conversation. But you were saying, when you grew up in our small Minnesota community, you didn't feel like people treated you differently because you are brown skinned, not white skinned.
Bradley Bodeker 1:48
You know, my friends didn't really look at me as a different color, but I did when I first moved. I moved there from New York and the only really white kid that we had was an Italian kid. And yeah, so I moved to where we grew up and I did have some kids go, "What are you? What are you?" And I'm just like, "A person?" But yeah, I mean, I was asked, you know, what is it like to be that color? And, you know, I used to go home and I'd be like, "Mom, you know, why are these kids asking me these questions? And why am I different color?" And, you know, and she'd say the cliche mom things like, "Oh, they're just jealous," you know? And I'm like, well- I mean, now I understand because everybody wants to be tan. I try to look at it as, you know, well these these kids grew up and the only real colored people they saw were people on TV. So there were, there were some of the old farm boys that kind of grew up with the whole racism thing that continued it. I'd gotten the crap kicked out of me by a few fellow students that would call me every racial epithet you could think of. You know, because they didn't know which one I was so they were just going to label all of them on me.
Amy Hallberg 3:14
Nice. Equal opportunity racism.
Bradley Bodeker 3:18
That's right. I don't just, I don't just hate Islanders, I hate all of them. Yeah. And it was really weird bumping into those people at the 30 year reunion. I was just like, huh, okay.
Amy Hallberg 3:30
And what's interesting to me is, I wouldn't necessarily know who those people were. So like, in my book, I talk about where I was bullied. And you believe me, because you know, like, right? I was bullied. But the people who bullied me may or may not have been the same ones. We didn't necessarily have, you know, the Venn diagram of who would bully me versus who would bully you might not be the same.
Bradley Bodeker 3:52
Right.
Amy Hallberg 3:53
Right? So like, I don't necessarily have an idea of who's racist or who's not because I wouldn't experience it that way. I would experience who doesn't, maybe like smart, bookish girls.
Bradley Bodeker 4:06
Right.
Amy Hallberg 4:06
But I wouldn't necessarily know who's going to be picking on the Islander kid, right? Like, I wouldn't have that experience. And we're not naming names. I'm not asking you to.
Bradley Bodeker 4:19
Right. One of them was at the 30 year reunion, and he was ordering a drink. And I don't know if you knew the running joke that night, but all the waitresses and bartenders had on their name tag, "Hi, my name is Kate. I'm Brad's future ex wife." It was on all of their name tags, and I'm like-
Amy Hallberg 4:40
Really? No, I never saw that.
Bradley Bodeker 4:42
Like, what is going on here? I must be the only single guy at this place. But yeah, so anyway, he was going up to get a drink for him and his wife and I told the bartender, I said, "Can you just put that on my tab, please?" And she goes, "Sure," and then he turned around and he's like, "Brad Bodeker?" and I'm like, "Hey, how's it going?" And he's like, "Dude, I made your life a living hell through school," and I go, "Yeah, you did," and he's like, "Well, why are you buying me a drink?" I said, "Because that was over 30 years ago, man. And I would like to think that we grew up, you know?" And he's like, "Wow, I really appreciate this." And then he attempted to friend me on Facebook and I'm just like, you know, I just don't, I don't see any point to that because it's not like we're gonna hang out or anything. And he still lives there and I live here and eventually- A lot further, but you know, I just wanted, I wanted to have that higher ground, like, okay, I'm not going to bring this 30 plus years down the road and say, "All right, now we're gonna fight because now I'm bigger than you, you know?"
Amy Hallberg 5:57
Right. You know, and we are going to talk about your book, but I want to come back to my book for a moment. There's a chapter in there, the cheerleading bully chapter, where it's like, well, why did I include that in there? It is over 30 years old. That fact that I was bullied as a cheerleader, like, standing on the field and people calling out my name and singling me out- Last name, by the way. They didn't even bother to use my first name, right? Calling out, "Hallberg," and it was mortifying and horrible and there were people who stood by and watched it happen. And there's a real reason I chose to use that story, and it's not because I want those people to come apologize to me at this point. Right? Like, I don't want people to come back to me and say, "Oh, I was so bad to you in high school and let me, let me tell you the litany of bad things I did to you so that I can make myself feel better." That's not why you tell those stories, right? I mean, maybe other people want, but I don't need an apology from those people.
Bradley Bodeker 6:54
Right.
Amy Hallberg 6:55
They're going to do with it what they're going to do. If they have a problem with how they treated me now and it makes them uncomfortable, then I would like them to look around at how they treat other people right now. Because I'm fine. That was 30 years ago, and we don't need to be friends. I just need people to understand, "Ooh, that's a thing that I participated in, and how am I participating in that now? And how can I change that behavior now for people who are a lot more vulnerable than Amy Hallberg or Brad Bodeker?"
Bradley Bodeker 7:24
Right. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think too, it's important for people to look at it and say, "Oh, I was that person. I was the Amy Hallberg or I was part of that crowd. Or, for the most part, I think if I was that person that was standing there, watching it happen and not doing anything."
Amy Hallberg 7:42
There are a set of some very egregious laws that are being passed right now where the people who are passing them from what I understand, the insiders passing them, a lot of them don't actually feel all that hepped up about it. They're not all that, you know, they're like, "Yeah, I don't have a problem with the group of people that I'm alienating and writing laws against." It's just politically expedient and it gains them power. Like, a lot of the people who are stirring the hate, don't even actually believe the hate, but it's a way of gaining influence. And I think that that is really craven, you know, like, you and I have spent a lot of time talking about how it's about building bridges. It's not about trying to make you like me, and me like you, and we're all going to be exactly the same homogenous. And to that point, you know, I had a really rude awakening when I went to college, because I didn't think I was racist. You know, I mean, like, we were friends, right? Like, I know brown people. And so this whole idea, well can't we just all get along, and we'll all just, you know, we won't see color? I don't know, because, maybe, because Brad isn't white and his reality is different than mine. And by understanding your experience as a brown skinned Maori guy, is much more interesting than trying to project my stories onto you of how you ought to be. Like, like, I actually feel like it makes us richer, that I, you know, it's understood, like, okay, and I'm white, and you're Maori, and you're Brown, you're Filipino, and you're whatever the, as you said, the labels go on and on and on. It's, it's (unclear) right? But, but the fact that we actually see those things is not a bad thing. You and I still joke about things, it's not like there's no humor, it's actually easier to have humor between us because we're not afraid of talking about the fact that your experience is not my experience.
Bradley Bodeker 9:33
Right. Yeah. I mean, that's, and that's what makes us individuals. It's what makes our lives interesting. It's what formed us. I mean, all of the bullying that I took back then, the bullying that you took back then, it made us who we are today. It made us hypersensitive to certain things that other people aren't, because we were there in the trenches, so to speak. I think it's good that we don't carry the bitterness behind that.
Amy Hallberg 10:02
Right. And so that gets actually- That's a beautiful transition to your book that you are working on.
Bradley Bodeker 10:09
Yeah.
Amy Hallberg 10:09
So in my, in my- On my book, there's a blurb for another different book, but this is a new book that has not yet been finished. And talking about how those stories can be really painful to write. But the point of it is not to stay stuck in it, it's actually to break those stories open and go, "What part of that is going to be useful to people without the pain attached to it?"
Bradley Bodeker 10:36
Right.
Amy Hallberg 10:36
It's still tender, but it's not like, it's not this seething wound anymore, right?
Bradley Bodeker 10:42
Right. One of the books, um, I mean, I'm working on a couple. It's my ADHD or something, but I can't like concentrate on it. I've got three projects going on right now. One of the big novels that I'm writing is, right now it's currently called The Ballad of Broken Bird and it's about a first nation guy who's very much like myself, diagnosed with terminal cancer, and decides he's going to sell all this stuff. He's in his early 50s, he's got a year to live. And he hops on his motorcycle, and he travels the United States. The people that he meets along the way are people that I've met in my life, and changed my way of thinking or had a huge influence on me. I believe that he may even be meeting an Amy character before the end of his journey.
Amy Hallberg 11:43
I cannot wait to see what she looks like.
Bradley Bodeker 11:46
That one was hard to make because I wanted him to be kind of the angsty hothead that I was before I did my vision quest. And it's hard to get back to that, so, kind of what I've been doing is I've been reading my old books of poetry to get in that mind frame, to relive some of that pain I was carrying around with me. The other book that I'm writing, which I'm hoping to be my opus, is the story about my mother, which, you know, as we've discussed, has taken on so many different, different versions and ways it's going to be told. We've talked about movies and, you know, putting it out as a script or whatever. But yeah, that one is going to be told from a lot of different points of view, because I mean, I, I actually got a death threat from, from the first draft of that.
Amy Hallberg 12:45
From a relative, I believe.
Bradley Bodeker 12:46
From a relative, yeah. But he and I had discussed it and talked about it and he helped me figure out how I was going to tell the story this time around. Yeah, I mean, I am pretty stuck on telling the story as a book.
Amy Hallberg 13:00
Well, and it needs to be a book because that's your voice. The movie will be someone else's interpretation of it, and it will be beautiful, but I love that it's coming through as your interpretation first.
Bradley Bodeker 13:12
Yeah. It's been kind of a great journey, because I've been able to talk to- There's not many people left alive now that grew up with my mom. The one uncle that had a huge problem with me writing this book, he passed away just this January. But I'm happy to say that he, you know, he left this earth and him and I were mended.
Amy Hallberg 13:35
Yeah. Which would never have happened, which would never have happened if you weren't telling this story that you're not supposed to tell. But you are.
Bradley Bodeker 13:45
Right. I mean, it was, it was kind of told, the first time I wrote it, it was kind of told- I had just watched the New Zealand made movie Once Were Warriors, by this Maori Director, Lee Tamahori. And it talks about the plight of the Maori in New Zealand and living in poverty, alcoholism, and domestic violence. And that was kind of, kind of the narrative I was going with in how my mom kind of came out of that. And that was like, the first thing that uncle had said to me, he goes, you know, "It's almost like you're trying to write like our family was the Once Were effing Warriors, you know, and that your grandfather was, you know, Jake the effing Muss." And, yeah, there were a lot of expletives thrown at me about that. And I'm like, huh, well, maybe I'm onto something if I'm getting this reaction. But you know, it wasn't about exposing my family for the faults they had, it was about, again, it was about enduring those and learning from them and still going to the goal that my mother wanted to get to. And this one is more about her two sons learning stories that they had never heard about their mom.
Amy Hallberg 15:06
Well, and I think that that is such an important thing, and I certainly did that in my writing too, right? You focus externally on that person and you leave yourself out of the story. And it comes across then as voyeuristic and judgy, and sort of like, you know, over here telling this story, and you're not really part of the story. I think that sometimes that's a stage we need to go through, right? Like, first we need to excavate those stories that maybe even we've been told, or whatever. And there's like, that's what those early drafts are for. They're not going to be the deeper nuance, the thematic stuff that the richness that comes out of, having been through that process of revision, revision revision and understanding that, you know, unlike we were taught in high school about here's a, here's a essay, okay, now make it better and better and better. Its, break it open, break it open some more, break it open some more, what am I missing? What is the gold? What is right in front of you that you aren't even seeing? So, like, the fact that you had to do that, that you had to have some conflict around it even, is what's going to make that story rich, and not just one level.
Bradley Bodeker 16:14
Right. Yeah. And it also, I mean, it kind of gave voice to, to more people than just my mom. But I mean, it's more people that were able to tell my mom's story that I didn't know. Holy cow, it's like, there's all this other- There are reactions to the story that my mom told, like, you know, stories that I heard, and then it's like, now you're hearing that same story from somebody else that was there. And is like, oh, holy cow. This is gold.
Amy Hallberg 16:49
Right. And then what is your part of that story then? Like, you know, it's given to you and then what are you going to do with it? Because if you're telling this story, why tell the story unless you're doing something new with it?
Bradley Bodeker 16:58
Right. Yeah.
Amy Hallberg 17:00
I mean, I think too, this idea of like, shadow, like, we're just going to dig into the shadows, and that's too much. Or oh, we're just going to only tell the good things, and that's too much. And what people want is actually nuance. What people want is shadow and light and the full human experience. It's not this nirvana or this, this depths of despair. They actually want the full expression of the human experience, which is what then comes in in those later revisions, those later drafts, that addition that you're doing.
Bradley Bodeker 17:29
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Amy Hallberg 17:30
And subtraction.
Bradley Bodeker 17:31
Yeah. Yeah. That's an awesome way of looking at it. Yeah.
Amy Hallberg 17:35
Can I ask you a question?
Bradley Bodeker 17:36
Sure.
Amy Hallberg 17:37
Okay. Well, I have two questions and I'm trying to figure out which one I want to ask first, but I think I want to ask this. The first is, you are a cancer survivor.
Bradley Bodeker 17:46
Yes.
Amy Hallberg 17:47
So going back to the story of the first story you were telling where the guy is going to die, I believe. Maybe, spoiler, maybe he's not. So like, you know, you haven't died. And as far as I can tell, and knock on wood and pray to, pray to all the forces to keep you here, you have made it your decision to live a very full life as long as you can stay here. So that's different, but you're also allowing yourself to play with that idea that you probably never would have even thought about. I mean, I remember when you were going through your treatment for cancer, and it was not a gentle little treatment, it was a fairly invasive, fairly debilitating treatment where you could have died, but you didn't. You survived. And it's been a long time at this point, right? You're, you're a longitudinal survivor, yeah?
Bradley Bodeker 18:36
Yeah. I think, yeah, six, six years, six, seven years. Yeah.
Amy Hallberg 18:41
Yeah. I mean, so it's a fictionalized story, but as you said, fiction still has to ring true. And it's still informed by our worldview. So what is that like writing fiction about yourself as a cancer- You know, like, you're a cancer survivor. This is a cancer, probably somebody who's going to die, terminal cancer.
Bradley Bodeker 19:02
Right.
Amy Hallberg 19:03
And versus writing nonfiction about your family, how does that, how does that factor into your process?
Bradley Bodeker 19:10
So, I don't want to sound dramatic, but when I was facing mortality-
Amy Hallberg 19:15
You were facing mortality. It's not dramatic. It's true.
Bradley Bodeker 19:18
You think about everything that was, you felt that is unfinished in your life, you know, and, and all the ghosts that you've been running from, and it's like, oh, man, I wish I would have done this, I wish I would have done that. And that's kind of how this came about. It was originally two stories, it was- One was called Love is Irrelevant, which is a quote from my ex wife. But-
Amy Hallberg 19:45
It sounds kind of bitter.
Bradley Bodeker 19:47
Yeah, like, oh, hey, I'm gonna use it. Ouch, first of all, and then I'm going to use that in a book someday. And then the other one was called Growing Fond of Kerouac. And that was about a guy going on this road trip just to find America, he was kind of fan of Easy Rider movie and On the Road by Jack Kerouac. And as I began writing both I go, oh shit, this is the same exact story. And it's the same character. So I just blended the two and now it is what it is.
Amy Hallberg 20:24
What is the working title as of today? That's the, that's the journey of the-
Bradley Bodeker 20:29
Ballad of Broken Bird.
Amy Hallberg 20:30
Right. Okay. Right. I just love that title.
Bradley Bodeker 20:34
That's the working title right now. Because it's-
Amy Hallberg 20:36
But it's so beautiful.
Bradley Bodeker 20:38
Yeah. So he's indigenous, the main character is. The main thing that I wanted to get through was, he is trying to put to bed all of these ghosts. And one of the reasons I gave him an expiration date was because I think you're more motivated to.
Amy Hallberg 20:55
Ah, okay.
Bradley Bodeker 20:56
You know, when I was looking at, okay, I could make it out of the surgery, or I can't make it out of the surgery, it was too late. I couldn't, "Hang on with that surgery, I'm gonna go travel the United States." Or, you know, I didn't need to travel the United States in order to chase my ghosts, but I just thought it was more exciting if my character did. It's, it's interesting to give some of my, my parents and my relatives, you know, a backstory that are characters in my book, you know, because I mean, people are going to read it and go, "Hey, that's me." It's like, yeah, it's totally you.
Amy Hallberg 21:35
Uncomfortable truth.
Bradley Bodeker 21:37
And I don't really paint anybody in a negative light. You know, I talk lightly about my own parents marriage a little bit in the book, but I kind of put it as, you know, but that's between, that's between him and my mom. That's not a story that I'm allowed to tell. That's their story and if they want to tell it, I'll let them. I have a friend, Jenny, that I've been friends with for a very long time. I actually let her pick her name in the book. Josie Whelan is their name in the book because she liked Josey- The Outlaw Josey Wales so I gave her, you know, a female's style on that. Yeah, I mean, she has her own past, but I said, but that's a story for Josie to tell, not for me. This is my story. And so-
Amy Hallberg 22:31
Right. By the way, by the way, if there is an Amy character, call her Amy.
Bradley Bodeker 22:35
Okay. All right. She gets that name then.
Amy Hallberg 22:37
Her name is Amy. Anyway, continuing.
Bradley Bodeker 22:39
Yeah, so I've been, I've been going to therapy for almost two years, to kind of exercise these demons that I knew I had before I went into cancer. And in order to have any type of healthy relationship with someone, I knew I needed to change what I was carrying around. I was carrying around a lot of, a lot of crap and I needed to change it. And oh, my God, this therapists that I'm seeing is wonderful. And he's really helped me along. And so writing about the unhealthy me, those having unhealthy thoughts and making unhealthy choices is really hard to relate to that guy because I'm not him anymore. And I'm like, I'm so sorry, broken bird. I'm writing happy things about you. And really, you're supposed to be going through inner turmoil. So then I'd go back to reading some poetry that I'd written back then and listen to the soundtracks and go back and listen to those old mixtapes and go, "Oh, yeah, Pink Floyd, the final cut, track three, you know, yeah, that's totally where I'm at right- you know, at that point in time." And so-
Amy Hallberg 24:00
I think that's such a good point that you bring up, Brad, that as writers, as the narrator, you are not the same person as the you, whether you fictionalize it or not, he's your avatar. You're saying this loudly for everybody to hear. There's, there's the narrator voice, and the narrator has a different understanding than that character does. Like, if you, the narrator, were as much in turmoil as that character was, then the writer would know that you're an unreliable narrator. But you're writing from a different place where you know more. And as you say, a lot of times, it's a really good thing to pair up therapy with your writing journey. They actually toggle nicely, you know? Like, so that what you're putting out there is what you really want to be putting out there too, you know? They inform (unclear.)
Bradley Bodeker 24:47
Right. Yeah. And then, you know, you get to some, some stories that you're just like, ooh, I don't know how to tell that one. And I don't know if, I mean maybe I'm just a really lousy person for wanting to tell this story, but I'm just gonna do it and kind of see where it goes. And yeah, it was, it was a story that happened to somebody very close to me, and it affected me a lot. It was a big ghost that was hanging on me and I didn't know whether I wanted to tell that part of it in. So I ended up calling that person and I'm, like, going, "Hey, do you remember when we did this and this, this and this?" And they're like, "Oh, I remember camping but I don't remember anything much more than that. I was so young." And I'm just like, okay. Okay, so I'm the one carrying the ghost around, not them. You know? So that was kind of my okay to go ahead and put it in there.
Amy Hallberg 25:59
Right. And that is the negotiation we do, and how much do we reveal, and how much do we just, it needs to be in the story, I don't necessarily want to be telling the story but it serves the story, therefore it goes in?
Bradley Bodeker 26:12
Yeah.
Amy Hallberg 26:14
So let me ask you a final question. It's been a delight to talk. And as I said, you and I could talk on forever. And you know, I'm sure we will talk again, but you speak about these stories as if they exist, as if they will come to fruition, as if they exist out there as work that is out there. Like, my book, I know for a long time that Tiny Altars would be a real book, it was going to happen. Right? But that's, that's a frame of mind that everybody does not share. So how do you come to this place where you actually have the faith in yourself as a writer, as a creative person, that you actually know that yes, these are real books, this isn't just some fantasy that, you know, you're not just doing some self indulgent little thing, but oh, can I do it? Can I not? I actually remember earlier in our friendship, you know, you were doing a role in a play where you were like, "Ooh, do I have it in me?" So I've seen you do that, but not lately, right? Like, you know these are books, they're, they're books, possibly movies. You don't necessarily know the exact format, but you have full faith they're going to happen. How did you get to there? Or what does that look like for you?
Bradley Bodeker 27:25
Because I realized that I'm not doing this for- I'm not doing this for the notoriety, I'm not doing it to be super rich like a lot of the authors out there. Like, you know, see, I'm not going to be Stephen King, I'm not going to be John Sandford or any of those people. I looked at the reason why I'm doing it, and that's two things. It's one, I need to get it out. I need to get it out of my system. And two, I just, I love telling stories and I, and I love it when people read my stories. And they don't have to read them. And if they're really uncomfortable with them, they say, "I don't really want to look at it," and that's okay, too. But it's also kind of a reason why I want to try to audio book my books. Because I've been getting a lot of that feedback of, "Oh, do you have it in audio book?" And it's like, well, I could make it an audio book, I never thought about it. You know, so I bought this little studio set up to do that. Yeah, I mean, the whole thing was, I'm gonna write it whether the world wants it or not. I want it out there and I want to tell my story. You know, it's almost like me standing on the roof and just preaching, you know? I want to do it. Maybe nobody else wants me to do it, but I'm gonna do it anyway. And if you want to listen to me rant, go ahead. Great. But if you don't, you know, you got your choice to walk away as well. So, yeah, I think it went from me wanting to be a popular author to me just wanting to write and tell my story.
Amy Hallberg 29:10
That's beautiful.
Bradley Bodeker 29:11
So, yeah.
Amy Hallberg 29:13
Thank you.
Bradley Bodeker 29:14
Yeah, thank you. I love these talks we have.
Amy Hallberg 29:17
The world should hear them I feel. Like, you know, we have them at these coffee meet up places over coffee and breakfast, and we just talk and talk. And it's like, man, I want people to hear what we're talking about because this is it, right? It's not about, it's not about the fame. And at the same time, I kind of want to push back a little bit against something, which is this: Who are the people that are going to hear your stories that are going to benefit? You know, you have these stories and you're telling them on the one side for you, but on the other side, there are people out there who need to receive these stories.
Bradley Bodeker 29:53
Yeah. But see, I'm in that, that fantastical belief that my stories are gonna find them or they will find my stories.
Amy Hallberg 30:04
Right. It's none of your business who those people are, you just be true to the story and those people will find it.
Bradley Bodeker 30:08
Right. I mean, yeah, I believe that there has to be a form of advertising or marketing but I think, again, you know, I, I've picked up a lot of books just because a friend of mine said, "Hey, you really gotta check out this book." I was like, oh, okay, so I'll, you know, order it on Amazon or whatever and then I'll read it and I'll be like, holy crap. You know, yeah right, I should have read this book. And I'm hoping that type of thing happens. But yeah, I mean, missed opportunities like having a release party of my, one of my last books, Bar Napkin Rants, which was just a conglomeration of things that were going through my head when I was dealing with cancer and death and divorce. I was writing everything on a bar napkin as I was getting drunk. Whiskey therapy. And then for some reason, I thought it was a good idea to publish it. But that being said, I totally should have had my release party at the Hole-in-the-Wall bar that I wrote them in.
Really should. So I, what I hear you saying is there's a progression of gaining faith in the fact that, yeah, I'm an author.
Yeah.
Amy Hallberg 31:25
And allowing yourself the outward trappings of that as much as the inner understanding of it.
Bradley Bodeker 31:31
I met, you know, because I'm working at the school here part time, at the high school, and I met an English teacher who loves books, loves authors, and she found out that I had published books, and she's like, "Oh, my God, I'm ordering all of them." And I'm like, you don't even know what they're about. I mean, if you're not into, like, really graphic horror, I would probably stay away from some of those titles. But, you know, if you want some gritty, raw poetry stuff, then maybe it's for you. If not, then I would maybe not get those titles, either. You know, I'm not gonna- I always think it's funny when, when relatives call me and say, "Hey, my daughter wants to read your book is, is it appropriate for 12 year old girls?" And I'm just like, now you're making me feel like a dirty person. But I'm like, no, it's- I mean, different parents have different parenting styles so I would maybe get the book and read it and see if you think it's appropriate for your kid.
Amy Hallberg 32:38
Well, it's a progression too, right? So what you're writing now is what you're writing now, what you wrote then is what you're writing then. And I think there's a, there's a, you know, you wrote what you felt, then you're writing what you feel now, and it's all part of the work and it all counts. It all counts.
Bradley Bodeker 32:56
Yeah. It all counts, right. Absolutely.
Amy Hallberg 32:59
Well, thank you, Brad.
Bradley Bodeker 33:01
Yeah, thanks again for having me. I love having conversations with you because we like to get into the meat and potatoes and stuff. We're not very much into small talk, it's always just like, here's the topic, let's dig into it right now.
Amy Hallberg 33:14
You don't small talk.
Thanks for listening to Courageous Wordsmith. Today's episode featured Bradley Bodeker. You can read more about him and check out his links in the show notes. Backstage at Courageous Wordsmith, my editor is the talented Will Quie, and my producer is the wonderful Zoe Wood. If you enjoyed this podcast, you can help it thrive and grow. Please tell your friends and sign up for my email so that you'll hear about future episodes. And if you're feeling the call to write, join us in our free community for real life writers. You'll find these links right on this page. You can learn more about me and my books, and my work with book writers at amyhallberg.com. I am Amy Hallberg and until we meet again, travel safely.